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Documenting the experience--
I appreciate that people are so into food, and excited about eating at Alinea, to the point where it drives them to record it. Obviously these “foodies” are a large segment of our cliental, and the very people that help propel the awareness of food and dining. I certainly admit that the popularity of web based reviews and information has helped Alinea achieve a certain level of popularity, and ultimately some level of success has to be attributed to this. In fact, since the beginning we have embraced the web, often contributing to food blogs with things like the egullet project before the restaurant was even open. With the proliferation of food blogs and the almost competitive nature of the posters to delve further into detail with their reporting, coupled with the ease of capturing images and video with our phones, we have seen a very high rise in photo and videography in the restaurant.
Documenting the food is one thing. I understand taking a photo in the kitchen with the chef after the meal to frame and hang in your office, perhaps of a particular course that you want to remember because it was so amazing, so you can remember the presentation, or even the manipulation of an ingredient in way you have never seen before. Taking it to the next level many people take pictures of every course and some even take photos of the wines as well. I don’t necessarily mind this, but I wonder why people so passionate about food would sacrifice the integrity of the courses, instead prioritizing the documentation. Courses get cold, or melt while the images are taken, and in extreme cases the intended effect of the dish is completely lost. A month ago a front of the house team member served the Hot Potato –Cold Potato to a blogger that was taking photos with a camera resting on a tripod. The server did their normal spiel, telling the guest the dish was intended to be consumed right away so the sensation of temperature contrast could be experienced. Instead they took a few minutes to move the course around on the table to find the right light, snapped several images, and then undoubtedly enjoyed….Warm Potato –Warm Potato. Not to mention the time that is added to the experience. Three extra minutes to take a photo is not much, but if you are eating 30 courses, you just added an hour and a half to your dinner.
And what about the people in the restaurant that are there to –- eat? Or enjoy an evening out with a significant other, or even having a business dinner? Often we have guest request to move tables in the restaurant because they feel the sound of the shutter, the light produced by the auto focus assist, or the person’s actions are ruining their own experience.
But recently the trend has been to video myself or the front of the house team. This is where I feel the documentation crosses the line. Now that I spend a good amount of time in the dining room with the table-plating concept we are doing guests will often stick the camera in my face as I walk up to the table. I never say no to guests when they ask to take a photo with me, but I always suggest we do it in the kitchen after their meal is finished. This is happening with the servers as well. Voice recorders are being held in front of them while they describe a course or a wine, or video is shot. It is uncomfortable… and frankly rude to do so without asking. This activity seems strange to me, I can’t imagine how celebrities feel. No wonder they punch the paparazzi out when they get the chance.
Documenting ...well me. When photo and videography becomes a bit much.
MultiQuote
#2
chickenfriedgourmet 
Posted 28 March 2010 - 03:25 PM
I have yet to dine at Alinea but hope to someday soon. I am food lover and also have a blog and probably would want to document my whole experience at Alinea 
I agree with what you are saying and I think unfortunately that there is always someone out there who wants to see how far they can push the boudaries of politeness (or lack thereof). I look forward to the day that my wife and I can truly have the Alinea experience and will keep in mind to scale back on my need to photograph everything . Thanks again for sharing all that you do.
I agree with what you are saying and I think unfortunately that there is always someone out there who wants to see how far they can push the boudaries of politeness (or lack thereof). I look forward to the day that my wife and I can truly have the Alinea experience and will keep in mind to scale back on my need to photograph everything . Thanks again for sharing all that you do.
#3 Guest_Chantrelle=_*
Posted 28 March 2010 - 03:25 PM
I've been running FoodPorn.com for 10 years and am appalled by the tripod/moving food around/etc tales! I know I'm not a professional photographer and sometimes (many times actually) the pictures are too dark, too grainy, etc. Sometimes blurry because I try to take pictures quickly and discretely. I don't want to sacrifice the food or the experience for a photo. Too many times I've forgotten to take a photo because I've been so entranced by the food and I finish the plate and go, "D'Oh!!!" But so be it, I'd rather enjoy the food than the picture later.
It really is a lack of respect. I've had a small USB recorder on the table before when I'm doing Celebrity section interviews but have never held it up to a server or videoed without asking.
Respect the food. Enjoy the food. If you get some pictures along the way, fantastic!
It really is a lack of respect. I've had a small USB recorder on the table before when I'm doing Celebrity section interviews but have never held it up to a server or videoed without asking.
Respect the food. Enjoy the food. If you get some pictures along the way, fantastic!
#4 Guest_MyCommunalTable_*
Posted 28 March 2010 - 03:52 PM
Grant Achatz, on 28 March 2010 - 03:14 PM, said:
Documenting the experience--
I appreciate that people are so into food, and excited about eating at Alinea, to the point where it drives them to record it. Obviously these “foodies” are a large segment of our cliental, and the very people that help propel the awareness of food and dining. I certainly admit that the popularity of web based reviews and information has helped Alinea achieve a certain level of popularity, and ultimately some level of success has to be attributed to this. In fact, since the beginning we have embraced the web, often contributing to food blogs with things like the egullet project before the restaurant was even open. With the proliferation of food blogs and the almost competitive nature of the posters to delve further into detail with their reporting, coupled with the ease of capturing images and video with our phones, we have seen a very high rise in photo and videography in the restaurant.
Documenting the food is one thing. I understand taking a photo in the kitchen with the chef after the meal to frame and hang in your office, perhaps of a particular course that you want to remember because it was so amazing, so you can remember the presentation, or even the manipulation of an ingredient in way you have never seen before. Taking it to the next level many people take pictures of every course and some even take photos of the wines as well. I don’t necessarily mind this, but I wonder why people so passionate about food would sacrifice the integrity of the courses, instead prioritizing the documentation. Courses get cold, or melt while the images are taken, and in extreme cases the intended effect of the dish is completely lost. A month ago a front of the house team member served the Hot Potato –Cold Potato to a blogger that was taking photos with a camera resting on a tripod. The server did their normal spiel, telling the guest the dish was intended to be consumed right away so the sensation of temperature contrast could be experienced. Instead they took a few minutes to move the course around on the table to find the right light, snapped several images, and then undoubtedly enjoyed….Warm Potato –Warm Potato. Not to mention the time that is added to the experience. Three extra minutes to take a photo is not much, but if you are eating 30 courses, you just added an hour and a half to your dinner.
And what about the people in the restaurant that are there to –- eat? Or enjoy an evening out with a significant other, or even having a business dinner? Often we have guest request to move tables in the restaurant because they feel the sound of the shutter, the light produced by the auto focus assist, or the person’s actions are ruining their own experience.
But recently the trend has been to video myself or the front of the house team. This is where I feel the documentation crosses the line. Now that I spend a good amount of time in the dining room with the table-plating concept we are doing guests will often stick the camera in my face as I walk up to the table. I never say no to guests when they ask to take a photo with me, but I always suggest we do it in the kitchen after their meal is finished. This is happening with the servers as well. Voice recorders are being held in front of them while they describe a course or a wine, or video is shot. It is uncomfortable… and frankly rude to do so without asking. This activity seems strange to me, I can’t imagine how celebrities feel. No wonder they punch the paparazzi out when they get the chance.
I appreciate that people are so into food, and excited about eating at Alinea, to the point where it drives them to record it. Obviously these “foodies” are a large segment of our cliental, and the very people that help propel the awareness of food and dining. I certainly admit that the popularity of web based reviews and information has helped Alinea achieve a certain level of popularity, and ultimately some level of success has to be attributed to this. In fact, since the beginning we have embraced the web, often contributing to food blogs with things like the egullet project before the restaurant was even open. With the proliferation of food blogs and the almost competitive nature of the posters to delve further into detail with their reporting, coupled with the ease of capturing images and video with our phones, we have seen a very high rise in photo and videography in the restaurant.
Documenting the food is one thing. I understand taking a photo in the kitchen with the chef after the meal to frame and hang in your office, perhaps of a particular course that you want to remember because it was so amazing, so you can remember the presentation, or even the manipulation of an ingredient in way you have never seen before. Taking it to the next level many people take pictures of every course and some even take photos of the wines as well. I don’t necessarily mind this, but I wonder why people so passionate about food would sacrifice the integrity of the courses, instead prioritizing the documentation. Courses get cold, or melt while the images are taken, and in extreme cases the intended effect of the dish is completely lost. A month ago a front of the house team member served the Hot Potato –Cold Potato to a blogger that was taking photos with a camera resting on a tripod. The server did their normal spiel, telling the guest the dish was intended to be consumed right away so the sensation of temperature contrast could be experienced. Instead they took a few minutes to move the course around on the table to find the right light, snapped several images, and then undoubtedly enjoyed….Warm Potato –Warm Potato. Not to mention the time that is added to the experience. Three extra minutes to take a photo is not much, but if you are eating 30 courses, you just added an hour and a half to your dinner.
And what about the people in the restaurant that are there to –- eat? Or enjoy an evening out with a significant other, or even having a business dinner? Often we have guest request to move tables in the restaurant because they feel the sound of the shutter, the light produced by the auto focus assist, or the person’s actions are ruining their own experience.
But recently the trend has been to video myself or the front of the house team. This is where I feel the documentation crosses the line. Now that I spend a good amount of time in the dining room with the table-plating concept we are doing guests will often stick the camera in my face as I walk up to the table. I never say no to guests when they ask to take a photo with me, but I always suggest we do it in the kitchen after their meal is finished. This is happening with the servers as well. Voice recorders are being held in front of them while they describe a course or a wine, or video is shot. It is uncomfortable… and frankly rude to do so without asking. This activity seems strange to me, I can’t imagine how celebrities feel. No wonder they punch the paparazzi out when they get the chance.
#6 Guest_M. Harrison_*
Posted 28 March 2010 - 04:08 PM
I agree with Mr. Grant Achatz completely.
My take is this: I blame sites like YELP! and things like Food Network that have glamourized the food service industry to a level that is exactly like that. Papparazzi in the dining room and kitchen is the last thing that needs to be going on at a respectable place of business. People are trying to work!!! And honestly, people are trying to eat!! I am there to experience the food. If I am going to eat at one of, if not the BEST restaurant in Chicago, I am sure not going to tolerate sitting next to the guy who thinks he's Ansel Adams.
We have put chefs on the same pedestal as celebs. And it's a good thing, sometimes because it gains popularity for an establishment, like you said. They finally are receiving the kind of accolades they deserve. Chefs have a rough job. 12-16 hours a day working with fire and heat and knives. They are talented and it's great to see their talent recognized.
But I think restaurants who alloy photos and video etc. cheapens the place. Obviously yes, a photo with you and the chef isn't something bad. Thats fine.
May I suggest???
Be like Momofuku Ko. NO CAMERAS!! It works for them. Nobody complains. People know that coming in and respect they are there for the food. I knew that and I have the wonderful memories of everything I ate. . And if you implement it the people who complain and don't want to adhere to it,---aren't there for the food anyhow.
My take is this: I blame sites like YELP! and things like Food Network that have glamourized the food service industry to a level that is exactly like that. Papparazzi in the dining room and kitchen is the last thing that needs to be going on at a respectable place of business. People are trying to work!!! And honestly, people are trying to eat!! I am there to experience the food. If I am going to eat at one of, if not the BEST restaurant in Chicago, I am sure not going to tolerate sitting next to the guy who thinks he's Ansel Adams.
We have put chefs on the same pedestal as celebs. And it's a good thing, sometimes because it gains popularity for an establishment, like you said. They finally are receiving the kind of accolades they deserve. Chefs have a rough job. 12-16 hours a day working with fire and heat and knives. They are talented and it's great to see their talent recognized.
But I think restaurants who alloy photos and video etc. cheapens the place. Obviously yes, a photo with you and the chef isn't something bad. Thats fine.
May I suggest???
Be like Momofuku Ko. NO CAMERAS!! It works for them. Nobody complains. People know that coming in and respect they are there for the food. I knew that and I have the wonderful memories of everything I ate. . And if you implement it the people who complain and don't want to adhere to it,---aren't there for the food anyhow.
#7 Guest_MyCommunalTable_*
Posted 28 March 2010 - 04:21 PM
I am shocked about the tripod travisty. The voice recorders almost sent me over the edge. I grew up in the restaurant business and now I cook for my family and blog. I won't even let my food at home get cold when I take pictures at home. It seems like some people have lost the "why" they are doing a blog in first place. I feel like I need to apologize for the self absorbed bloggers. In the end, it all gets down to common sense manners. Thanks for talking about it
#8 Guest_Scott_*
Posted 28 March 2010 - 04:31 PM
I'm one of those foodies who does photograph special meals. I really try to be discreet (but not secretive), and not interrupt the flow. I live with the lighting, although I do bring a serious camera which does OK in lower light. I love the food, and, with my dining partners, usually carefully taste and enjoy it. But the photos also help me to remember the meal and re-experience it.
At one El Bulli meal, we were a group of 8, and probably had 5 cameras at the table. We probably disturbed the room more with our discussion of the dishes than with our photos. An example of the remembrance: El Bulli #1.
We have yet to visit and enjoy Alinea, but when we do, we'll be there with both palates and camera(s) at the ready.
At one El Bulli meal, we were a group of 8, and probably had 5 cameras at the table. We probably disturbed the room more with our discussion of the dishes than with our photos. An example of the remembrance: El Bulli #1.
We have yet to visit and enjoy Alinea, but when we do, we'll be there with both palates and camera(s) at the ready.
#9 Guest_Deborah Reid_*
Posted 28 March 2010 - 04:40 PM
Grant Achatz, on 28 March 2010 - 03:14 PM, said:
Documenting the experience--
I appreciate that people are so into food, and excited about eating at Alinea, to the point where it drives them to record it. Obviously these “foodies” are a large segment of our cliental, and the very people that help propel the awareness of food and dining. I certainly admit that the popularity of web based reviews and information has helped Alinea achieve a certain level of popularity, and ultimately some level of success has to be attributed to this. In fact, since the beginning we have embraced the web, often contributing to food blogs with things like the egullet project before the restaurant was even open. With the proliferation of food blogs and the almost competitive nature of the posters to delve further into detail with their reporting, coupled with the ease of capturing images and video with our phones, we have seen a very high rise in photo and videography in the restaurant.
Documenting the food is one thing. I understand taking a photo in the kitchen with the chef after the meal to frame and hang in your office, perhaps of a particular course that you want to remember because it was so amazing, so you can remember the presentation, or even the manipulation of an ingredient in way you have never seen before. Taking it to the next level many people take pictures of every course and some even take photos of the wines as well. I don’t necessarily mind this, but I wonder why people so passionate about food would sacrifice the integrity of the courses, instead prioritizing the documentation. Courses get cold, or melt while the images are taken, and in extreme cases the intended effect of the dish is completely lost. A month ago a front of the house team member served the Hot Potato –Cold Potato to a blogger that was taking photos with a camera resting on a tripod. The server did their normal spiel, telling the guest the dish was intended to be consumed right away so the sensation of temperature contrast could be experienced. Instead they took a few minutes to move the course around on the table to find the right light, snapped several images, and then undoubtedly enjoyed….Warm Potato –Warm Potato. Not to mention the time that is added to the experience. Three extra minutes to take a photo is not much, but if you are eating 30 courses, you just added an hour and a half to your dinner.
And what about the people in the restaurant that are there to –- eat? Or enjoy an evening out with a significant other, or even having a business dinner? Often we have guest request to move tables in the restaurant because they feel the sound of the shutter, the light produced by the auto focus assist, or the person’s actions are ruining their own experience.
But recently the trend has been to video myself or the front of the house team. This is where I feel the documentation crosses the line. Now that I spend a good amount of time in the dining room with the table-plating concept we are doing guests will often stick the camera in my face as I walk up to the table. I never say no to guests when they ask to take a photo with me, but I always suggest we do it in the kitchen after their meal is finished. This is happening with the servers as well. Voice recorders are being held in front of them while they describe a course or a wine, or video is shot. It is uncomfortable… and frankly rude to do so without asking. This activity seems strange to me, I can’t imagine how celebrities feel. No wonder they punch the paparazzi out when they get the chance.
I appreciate that people are so into food, and excited about eating at Alinea, to the point where it drives them to record it. Obviously these “foodies” are a large segment of our cliental, and the very people that help propel the awareness of food and dining. I certainly admit that the popularity of web based reviews and information has helped Alinea achieve a certain level of popularity, and ultimately some level of success has to be attributed to this. In fact, since the beginning we have embraced the web, often contributing to food blogs with things like the egullet project before the restaurant was even open. With the proliferation of food blogs and the almost competitive nature of the posters to delve further into detail with their reporting, coupled with the ease of capturing images and video with our phones, we have seen a very high rise in photo and videography in the restaurant.
Documenting the food is one thing. I understand taking a photo in the kitchen with the chef after the meal to frame and hang in your office, perhaps of a particular course that you want to remember because it was so amazing, so you can remember the presentation, or even the manipulation of an ingredient in way you have never seen before. Taking it to the next level many people take pictures of every course and some even take photos of the wines as well. I don’t necessarily mind this, but I wonder why people so passionate about food would sacrifice the integrity of the courses, instead prioritizing the documentation. Courses get cold, or melt while the images are taken, and in extreme cases the intended effect of the dish is completely lost. A month ago a front of the house team member served the Hot Potato –Cold Potato to a blogger that was taking photos with a camera resting on a tripod. The server did their normal spiel, telling the guest the dish was intended to be consumed right away so the sensation of temperature contrast could be experienced. Instead they took a few minutes to move the course around on the table to find the right light, snapped several images, and then undoubtedly enjoyed….Warm Potato –Warm Potato. Not to mention the time that is added to the experience. Three extra minutes to take a photo is not much, but if you are eating 30 courses, you just added an hour and a half to your dinner.
And what about the people in the restaurant that are there to –- eat? Or enjoy an evening out with a significant other, or even having a business dinner? Often we have guest request to move tables in the restaurant because they feel the sound of the shutter, the light produced by the auto focus assist, or the person’s actions are ruining their own experience.
But recently the trend has been to video myself or the front of the house team. This is where I feel the documentation crosses the line. Now that I spend a good amount of time in the dining room with the table-plating concept we are doing guests will often stick the camera in my face as I walk up to the table. I never say no to guests when they ask to take a photo with me, but I always suggest we do it in the kitchen after their meal is finished. This is happening with the servers as well. Voice recorders are being held in front of them while they describe a course or a wine, or video is shot. It is uncomfortable… and frankly rude to do so without asking. This activity seems strange to me, I can’t imagine how celebrities feel. No wonder they punch the paparazzi out when they get the chance.
#10 Guest_Ian_*
Posted 28 March 2010 - 05:00 PM
This may be a crazy suggestion, or on the other hand already widely practiced (I don't know), but I wonder if it would be practical for restaurants like Alinea or El Bulli, FL, etc. to photograph courses before they go out, restrict people from using their own, and through this practice actually have a controlled environment for the plating snapshots? I personally have no problem at all with restricting any/all photography. Make the policy known, and enforce it gently but firmly. People who are into food should have enough reverence to honor the house's wishes.
#11 Guest_Holly Moore_*
Posted 28 March 2010 - 05:13 PM
Grant,
Maybe this year for Alinea. In the mean time, I continue to savor my two dinners at Trio.
My first visit I asked the maitre d' if pictures during dinner were permitted. Without saying no, he offered to give my camera to the chef. As opportunity permitted, the kitchen would take pictures of the dishes served to me. An ideal solution which, indeed, allowed me to become totally immersed in and enthralled by the most inventive and rollicking meal ever.
Nowadays, with so many more cameras being toted to restaurants, such hospitality is probably not practical. Perhaps a commis de camera who, nightly, took charge of twenty or thirty guest cameras, snapping pictures as courses were sent out. Perhaps not.
Another solution might be requesting no cameras in the dining room but provide a souvenir booklet picturing the various courses. In lieu of the obligatory picture of the chef, your autograph, table-side.
Maybe this year for Alinea. In the mean time, I continue to savor my two dinners at Trio.
My first visit I asked the maitre d' if pictures during dinner were permitted. Without saying no, he offered to give my camera to the chef. As opportunity permitted, the kitchen would take pictures of the dishes served to me. An ideal solution which, indeed, allowed me to become totally immersed in and enthralled by the most inventive and rollicking meal ever.
Nowadays, with so many more cameras being toted to restaurants, such hospitality is probably not practical. Perhaps a commis de camera who, nightly, took charge of twenty or thirty guest cameras, snapping pictures as courses were sent out. Perhaps not.
Another solution might be requesting no cameras in the dining room but provide a souvenir booklet picturing the various courses. In lieu of the obligatory picture of the chef, your autograph, table-side.
#12 Guest_Deborah Reid_*
Posted 28 March 2010 - 05:29 PM
I hear you, loud and clear and share your sentiments. I am not a blogger but an eater (and chef) and believe it is impossible to capture the experience of a chef, restaurant or meal. I don't bring any recording devices out to a great meal and have had to do the hard work of establishing personal integrity and boundaries in that area. But I can tell you persuasively, with precision and subtlety what my experience at any restaurant has been. I want to be undistracted in order to capture the richness of the experience. Dining is so much more than pure documentation and the practice of treating it as such is reductive. I have had similar experiences in art galleries. I was visiting the Musee d'Orsay, standing in front of Manet's Dejeuner sur l'Herbe, in a state of rapture (a state I find myself in sometimes in restaurants), trying to sort out privately all the nuances of the experience, while people ran through snapping photos of this masterpiece in a greedy and consumptive manner. To me it seemed harsh and profane. The Amish in rural Ontario ask that their photos not be taken because they don't want to be seen as anything more than they are - human. Like you I search myself for tolerance because I do appreciate the democracy of blogging and have more than once turned to a bloggers documentation of a meal as reference. But there is no denying the limitations of this activity - a very real loss of soul.
I do think you have the opportunity to remind or re-teach customers what it means to dine. It may be a renaissance that manifests at Alinea. That there is a sacredness about a good meal that defies electronic capture. And that dining is simultaneously a private and public activity and necessitates a concern for the pleasure of all, including employees. That may not always be that comfortable for you to enforce but ultimately I know it will lead to a much better experience for all. It may be that you either have to adopt a completely hands off policy, asking diners to turn in all devices at an electronics check or you have to control the action. Perhaps install video recording devices at the table and offer the service to clients for a fee - similar to a photographer.
I am so grateful that you began this conversation and judging by the response it is important. I also am grateful to have the opportunity to reply more fully and thoughtfully because I wanted to reply to your Twitter post but 140 characters is reductive.
Thank you,
Deborah Reid
I do think you have the opportunity to remind or re-teach customers what it means to dine. It may be a renaissance that manifests at Alinea. That there is a sacredness about a good meal that defies electronic capture. And that dining is simultaneously a private and public activity and necessitates a concern for the pleasure of all, including employees. That may not always be that comfortable for you to enforce but ultimately I know it will lead to a much better experience for all. It may be that you either have to adopt a completely hands off policy, asking diners to turn in all devices at an electronics check or you have to control the action. Perhaps install video recording devices at the table and offer the service to clients for a fee - similar to a photographer.
I am so grateful that you began this conversation and judging by the response it is important. I also am grateful to have the opportunity to reply more fully and thoughtfully because I wanted to reply to your Twitter post but 140 characters is reductive.
Thank you,
Deborah Reid
#13
mirauncut
Posted 28 March 2010 - 05:45 PM
I agree that invasive measures to take pictures is very annoying for everyone involved. Also like you said Chef, the web etc... have helped propel alinea along. So, on one hand you have bloggers, foodies, "froupies" (what i like to call food groupies), that are so into the restaurant, the food and the experience that they want to immortalize it and talk about it and their panties get in a twist about it. And on the other hand you have the staff, the chef, the restaurant, the other diners that just want the food to be enjoyed and respected. In the end both sides just want the food to be celebrated. I get that. I am a froupie-pik-taker, but i don't border on annoying. At least, i dont think so. If i knew certain restaurants were annoyed by it, i would respect that and show more restraint or not take piks at all if thats what they wanted. However, i would also probably be really really dissapointed, especially when its a rare thing like dining at alinea and having to budget it in.It's not like i'm going around the corner to grab a burger. I'm driving to chicago 3hours from detroit,spending there 5 hours of my life and then spending more than my car payment on dinner. Don't get me wrong, i would be more than happy to do those things because it's exciting and mind blowing food. It's not just food. It's ART! It's more than worth it. So, when i snap a picture, i want to remember and enjoy that experience over and over, and i want to brag about it too, and in a childish voice in my head say "nah nah nah naaaanaaa, i got to eat at alinea, eat your heart out internet!".lol. it's the truth.
As to punching the paparazzi, it's funny how initially all the celebreties wanted the attention and popularity which paparazzi undeniably provide, and slip "anonymous" tips to where they will be eating lunch that day, and later on when they aren't needed anymore the paps become the "enemy". Btw, i'm not saying the paparazzi aren't crazy invasive, i'm just going along with the analogy. Lets be honest, they both need each other. It's a symbiotic relationship. No punching required.
I think it's too hard to control what people do if there are no set rules. You could say "u can take piks but not invasively", and that can be understood by 5 different people in 5 different ways & you would get nowhere. But at the same time i would hate it if there were "no photo rules" in restaurants, but then again i understand it.
SOLUTION? have professionally previously taken pictures emailed to teh guests that want them thru some automated system of the dishes they had, and then i wouldn't mind as much the banning of photography(which i think alot of restaurants are headed). In a way that would ruin the specialness of it from a foodies perspective: being able to obtain your own pik of your persepective of the dish; but i think it would be a fair comprimise for both. Because, the internet is never going away, its going to get bigger and bigger. So, the foodies/froupies get to blog about the amazing food they had at alinea and make their readers jealous with amazing piks, and the restaurants get their camera free dining room back along with all the promotion and praise or maybe even criticism of the foodie.
In the end i think it should be clear cut: either let ppl take piks and accept that it's uncontrollable and accept the publicity, or don't and have ur peace of mind. It's ure restaurant, u can do what u want. just don't complain when there is no clear policy in effect,becuse then what we thought was ok makes us feel like we infringed on ur hospitality, and we end up feeling like asses. I plan on going to alinea this summer, and now i'm not sure if i can take piks or not.
As to punching the paparazzi, it's funny how initially all the celebreties wanted the attention and popularity which paparazzi undeniably provide, and slip "anonymous" tips to where they will be eating lunch that day, and later on when they aren't needed anymore the paps become the "enemy". Btw, i'm not saying the paparazzi aren't crazy invasive, i'm just going along with the analogy. Lets be honest, they both need each other. It's a symbiotic relationship. No punching required.
I think it's too hard to control what people do if there are no set rules. You could say "u can take piks but not invasively", and that can be understood by 5 different people in 5 different ways & you would get nowhere. But at the same time i would hate it if there were "no photo rules" in restaurants, but then again i understand it.
SOLUTION? have professionally previously taken pictures emailed to teh guests that want them thru some automated system of the dishes they had, and then i wouldn't mind as much the banning of photography(which i think alot of restaurants are headed). In a way that would ruin the specialness of it from a foodies perspective: being able to obtain your own pik of your persepective of the dish; but i think it would be a fair comprimise for both. Because, the internet is never going away, its going to get bigger and bigger. So, the foodies/froupies get to blog about the amazing food they had at alinea and make their readers jealous with amazing piks, and the restaurants get their camera free dining room back along with all the promotion and praise or maybe even criticism of the foodie.
In the end i think it should be clear cut: either let ppl take piks and accept that it's uncontrollable and accept the publicity, or don't and have ur peace of mind. It's ure restaurant, u can do what u want. just don't complain when there is no clear policy in effect,becuse then what we thought was ok makes us feel like we infringed on ur hospitality, and we end up feeling like asses. I plan on going to alinea this summer, and now i'm not sure if i can take piks or not.
#14
nmayur2000
Posted 28 March 2010 - 05:46 PM
Hi chef ,its great to get so much of inspiration from your work and the cusine that you are creating ,
I would like know what make you think on those line of ideas ,presentation ,techniques .
It is truely amazing how you manipulate the ingredients and every thing on the plate creates a wave of excitment,
I am sure you would be voted in the first 3 BEST RESTAURANTS IN THE WORLD this year in April .
keep up with your hard work.
Warm regards
Mayur
I would like know what make you think on those line of ideas ,presentation ,techniques .
It is truely amazing how you manipulate the ingredients and every thing on the plate creates a wave of excitment,
I am sure you would be voted in the first 3 BEST RESTAURANTS IN THE WORLD this year in April .
keep up with your hard work.
Warm regards
Mayur
#15
chickenfriedgourmet
Posted 28 March 2010 - 07:03 PM
probably the best solution would be to ban flash photography and any other equipment other than the actual camera. As to video, may just want to ban that all together......just a thought.
#16 Guest_ryanKauffman_*
Posted 28 March 2010 - 08:56 PM
Chef Achatz,
This issue of documentation is a large one for me as well. When documenting an event takes authority over experiencing said event, it becomes problematic and undesirable. As someone who prioritizes the experience of food(I think those who call what you do art are correct in doing so), I think you would be more than justified in disallowing photography. If people don't like the decision, they're probably missing more of the experience of dining at Alinea than you could ever give them.
I will admit that in my Alinea dream (I sadly have yet to make it), I am snapping pictures with my camera phone. But as a patron I would trust your artistic judgement enough to leave it in my pocket if that is how you would want me to experience your presentation. In fact, I would be thankful for the reminder to experience rather than document. If you are wasting your time documenting every aspect, what memory will there even be to reflect upon later?
- ryanK.
This issue of documentation is a large one for me as well. When documenting an event takes authority over experiencing said event, it becomes problematic and undesirable. As someone who prioritizes the experience of food(I think those who call what you do art are correct in doing so), I think you would be more than justified in disallowing photography. If people don't like the decision, they're probably missing more of the experience of dining at Alinea than you could ever give them.
I will admit that in my Alinea dream (I sadly have yet to make it), I am snapping pictures with my camera phone. But as a patron I would trust your artistic judgement enough to leave it in my pocket if that is how you would want me to experience your presentation. In fact, I would be thankful for the reminder to experience rather than document. If you are wasting your time documenting every aspect, what memory will there even be to reflect upon later?
- ryanK.
#17 Guest_Bobby_*
Posted 28 March 2010 - 09:18 PM
thanks for taking the time to elaborate.
Alinea was simply the best meal we've ever had. And as much as we would love to come every season with the changing menus, for us it's not that easy. We did take a lot if documentation to try to remember the excitement we had. Yes, my wife does have a blog. But honestly she's always taken photos, to just capture the memories.
Uh, and yeaahhh... we did video the frozen chocolate menthol dessert as it was presented. After reading this I feel a bit embarrassed about it. So, again - thanks for starting this topic to help us understand the thoughts more.
Alinea was simply the best meal we've ever had. And as much as we would love to come every season with the changing menus, for us it's not that easy. We did take a lot if documentation to try to remember the excitement we had. Yes, my wife does have a blog. But honestly she's always taken photos, to just capture the memories.
Uh, and yeaahhh... we did video the frozen chocolate menthol dessert as it was presented. After reading this I feel a bit embarrassed about it. So, again - thanks for starting this topic to help us understand the thoughts more.
#18
Grant Achatz
Posted 28 March 2010 - 09:50 PM
Holly Moore, on 28 March 2010 - 05:13 PM, said:
Grant,
Maybe this year for Alinea. In the mean time, I continue to savor my two dinners at Trio.
My first visit I asked the maitre d' if pictures during dinner were permitted. Without saying no, he offered to give my camera to the chef. As opportunity permitted, the kitchen would take pictures of the dishes served to me. An ideal solution which, indeed, allowed me to become totally immersed in and enthralled by the most inventive and rollicking meal ever.
Nowadays, with so many more cameras being toted to restaurants, such hospitality is probably not practical. Perhaps a commis de camera who, nightly, took charge of twenty or thirty guest cameras, snapping pictures as courses were sent out. Perhaps not.
Another solution might be requesting no cameras in the dining room but provide a souvenir booklet picturing the various courses. In lieu of the obligatory picture of the chef, your autograph, table-side.
Maybe this year for Alinea. In the mean time, I continue to savor my two dinners at Trio.
My first visit I asked the maitre d' if pictures during dinner were permitted. Without saying no, he offered to give my camera to the chef. As opportunity permitted, the kitchen would take pictures of the dishes served to me. An ideal solution which, indeed, allowed me to become totally immersed in and enthralled by the most inventive and rollicking meal ever.
Nowadays, with so many more cameras being toted to restaurants, such hospitality is probably not practical. Perhaps a commis de camera who, nightly, took charge of twenty or thirty guest cameras, snapping pictures as courses were sent out. Perhaps not.
Another solution might be requesting no cameras in the dining room but provide a souvenir booklet picturing the various courses. In lieu of the obligatory picture of the chef, your autograph, table-side.
Who is paying for the photographer, layout and printing for the booklet? Will guests be willing to absorb that cost in their menu price?
#19
Grant Achatz
Posted 28 March 2010 - 10:04 PM
Bobby, on 28 March 2010 - 09:18 PM, said:
thanks for taking the time to elaborate.
Alinea was simply the best meal we've ever had. And as much as we would love to come every season with the changing menus, for us it's not that easy. We did take a lot if documentation to try to remember the excitement we had. Yes, my wife does have a blog. But honestly she's always taken photos, to just capture the memories.
Uh, and yeaahhh... we did video the frozen chocolate menthol dessert as it was presented. After reading this I feel a bit embarrassed about it. So, again - thanks for starting this topic to help us understand the thoughts more.
Alinea was simply the best meal we've ever had. And as much as we would love to come every season with the changing menus, for us it's not that easy. We did take a lot if documentation to try to remember the excitement we had. Yes, my wife does have a blog. But honestly she's always taken photos, to just capture the memories.
Uh, and yeaahhh... we did video the frozen chocolate menthol dessert as it was presented. After reading this I feel a bit embarrassed about it. So, again - thanks for starting this topic to help us understand the thoughts more.
Don't be embarrassed. I am fine with the documentation, maybe I wasn't clear. What I am not ok with is the documentation of me and the staff without asking, and people ruining the experience for other diners.
#20 Guest_Jocelyn Ochinang_*
Posted 29 March 2010 - 12:26 AM
Regarding the souvenir booklet:
A week ago I had dinner at Joel Robuchon at the Mansion in Las Vegas and after my meal, we were presented with a booklet that had the menu and photos of all of the courses. I was fortunate to dine at Alinea twice last year and both times lighting wasn't optimal so I wouldn't mind having this keepsake than having the ability to take my own photos.
If you would like to see photos of the booklet, I can certainty do that for you if you are interested.
Regards,
Jocelyn Ochinang
A week ago I had dinner at Joel Robuchon at the Mansion in Las Vegas and after my meal, we were presented with a booklet that had the menu and photos of all of the courses. I was fortunate to dine at Alinea twice last year and both times lighting wasn't optimal so I wouldn't mind having this keepsake than having the ability to take my own photos.
If you would like to see photos of the booklet, I can certainty do that for you if you are interested.
Regards,
Jocelyn Ochinang